Wednesday, March 08, 2006

Sideon made me do it...

I feel obligated ;) to write because Sideon is implying that I've been away. My in-laws are here, and also a friend of ours from NC, so I've been pretty busy. The men have torn up our driveway, and today they're dumping gravel. Then tomorrow we'll get some concrete poured, and YAY, we'll have a nice, smooth driveway.

I love Spring because I get all sorts of inspiration for home improvements. After this driveway is done, I'm going to make a nice walkway next to it.

I got the latest Ensign magazine and decided I would read it to see what inspiration it could give me. Well, there wasn't much. In fact, I found myself doing what I used to do to my scriptures: I picked it apart, cross-referenced, and underlined. But the result in doing this was that the authors are full of shit! They don't prove their points with proof, they "prove" them with circular logic. Let's take an example:

In the article titled Agency on page 18, the author (unknown) makes a statement in the 2nd paragraph. "Agency is essential to Heavenly Father's plan for His children, for without it we cannot become as He is." But then they say that agency is a eternal principle, so I'd say it's not really Heavenly Father's plan, it's more of a Universal plan. Except I don't really believe it.

Later, it says, "We do not believe in a deterministic God--that is, one who determines in advance the eventual fate of His children. Rather, we believe in a God who has perfect foreknowledge of the choices His children will make. He may use this foreknowledge to guide us or even to warn us..." (emphasis added)

Now, doesn't that statement contradict itself? He's not deterministic, but He's got perfect foreknowledge, and with that He guides us or warns us. But He knew in advance that He'd guide or warn us, and what the outcome of that guidance/warning would be, so isn't that deterministic?

Further on it says, "But we know our Heavenly Father did not create us out of nothing....He merely places us, His spirit children, in spheres where we can learn and grow by exercising our agency, if we employ it correctly." I had to laugh when the word "employ" was used, because while reading this whole paragraph I was thinking that us spirit children sound more like employees rather than children. If God didn't create us, why are we called His children? Why are we accountable to Him at all?

I have some other stuff to do right now, but these are some of my currents thoughts. Thanks for stopping by!


Lone Commenter said...

I have to get my thinking cap on for that one. I've been frying my brain a lot this afternoon and I might have reached my understanding threshold.

Logic, from my little experiene on earth, I feel can prove almost anything. If used in certain ways.

But this is an interesting post. Thank's for putting it out there.

Joseph's Left One said...

You've got it nailed. As Mormons, we believed we had all the answers. But most of the things we thought we knew are not logically defensible.

For example, justice is an eternal law. If not for a Savior, the law of justice would demand our eternal suffering, so thus we should be grateful to Jesus.

But logically, who says justice is an eternal law? Why couldn't God's mercy overcome justice? Why is it just for someone else to suffer for something I did?

See what I mean? The answer is inevitably, "Because we say so."

C.L. Hanson said...

I remember spending so much time as a teenager trying to reconcile "We can do whatever we want" and "God already knows now what we will do in the future."

Basically, I decided that it's as if the answer were written in a sealed envelope, and whatever we choose, when we open the envelope we'll find that the answer written there is correct...

Damn, what a shame to have wasted so much precious brainpower on trying to reconcile absurdities!!!!!

Sideon said...


I didn't mean to guilt you into writing :) Okay, yes I did. You've a lot to say, plus, I was kind of worried after the whole furnace thing.

Ensign articles? You all are talking a foreign language to me. The only use I could get out of an Ensign is target practice for a dart board - the kind with sharp metal tips. And no, I don't throw like a girl. Usually.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, my parents have about 60 bajillion years worth of Ensigns stacked in their bathroom. I try not to read, but it's like a train wreck. I have this morbid desire to see things that piss me off. What is the matter with me???

Anonymous said...

Regarding what "joseph's left one" said about justice, I remember when I was a kid being indoctrinated, I was mindf-cked by some Sunday School teacher trying to "balance" god's mercy with some eternal justice. See, Jesus died for our sins.. so.. Overlord Evil God get's his "justice" because the price for the sin has been paid.. but.. then.. well, then nice God sends Jesus down because.. well, .. we're all sinners.. so.. that shows His awesome mercy.

I remember going WHa - aAT ??? So, I spank my meat, which is a sin, okay.. so, then the price for this sin is.. okay, say it again? what? eternal pain? Okay, that's justice, okay, got it. But then, Jesus takes one for the team, you know, so I don't have to pay the price because he paid it, and I commited the sin but then I repented, and now.. that's mercy. Okay, its all clear now.

I wanted to tell this bitch that she's making no sense, but then I figured it was god, not this teacher, that made no sense. So.. I bailed.